англ. название записи: Istagosthi: Dhama-tattva and Levels of Realisation - 2024-05-24
0:37... обсуждали dhamma-tattva, обсуждение...
0:41... обсуждали dhamma-tattva, and that there is another big discussion among the devotees.
0:49... и оказалось, что у разных преданных, как у своих представления.
0:54... to know that different devotees have different ideas and different understanding of this.
0:59... и вот поэтому мы хотели попросить все вместе, чтобы вы поподробнее объяснили, что такое антар-мандала, мадья-мандала, ну, бахир-мандала более-менее понятно было.
1:10So we wanted to ask you to explain again, please, what is it? Andra Mandala, Lakhir Mandala, ah, Madhya Mandala.
1:19And also we would like to draw the map of Atkama, because we remember your class in 2018, when you made the drawing of Atkama and somehow developed it, I think.
1:50And also, which sadhaka are going where? Because some of them, for example, belong to Nityanilan, so in which direction do they go?
2:55Если что-то для них невозможное,
2:59The Supreme Lord, Sikrishna, He has unlimited forms.
3:03У Vruchovного Господа, Sikrishna, безграничное количество форм.
3:06And his associates have unlimited forms.
3:11And the Dhamma has unlimited forms to accommodate all those unlimited forms of the Lord and his associates.
3:18And, соответственно, у Дхамы, чтобы она могла вместить все эти безграничные формы Господа и его спутников, тоже безграничные формы.
3:26дорожка перевода · текст английскийAnd time also is not limited in the way that we experience it in this world.
3:36дорожка перевода · текст английскийVrindavan. Each moment can last forever. And the pastimes, in the morning, in the noon, in the evening, they can be going on at the same time, in different prakashas, in different manifestations.
4:03So it's very difficult too, one should not put any limitation.
4:15Now the confusion comes because these phrases like Antamandala and Bahimandala, they're used in two separate contexts, separate.
4:28Ahramandala, они используются в двух разных контекстах.
4:31One is that the Krishna-log planet, it has its outer aspect, it has its outer aspect, and that is galoka, where there is the opulence. It is galoka, where there is the opulence, and then within that there is the dvarka, and then more confidential within that there is matra.
4:59And then more confidential within that there is barja.
5:05So this is one way in which we can think of what is antimandal, the inner aspect and the outer aspect.
5:29Madhyamandha, bahimandha, et cetera, is used in terms of the Nikunjus of Brandavan, where only Krishna and the gopis meet, and then there is the ghosts, the fields, the meadows, where Krishna tends to the cows and takes care of the coward boys, and then there is the village where the parents and everyone like this. So sometimes these terms are used in different this context and also in that context.
5:55A, получается, второй контекст таких понятий, как andramandhala, bahirmandhala, это то, что, например, есть очень сокровенные места, Nikunja Vrindavan, где встречается только Радха и Кришна и ее группа, или есть такие поля, где Кришна со своими друзями-пастушками пасут коров, то есть такие разные места для разных лил.
6:14Now, the nitya lila is of two types.
6:20Есть два вида nitya lila.
6:22There is the swarasiki lila pita and the mantramayi upasana lila pita.
6:27дорожка перевода · текст английскийThere is the swarasiki lila pita and the mantramayi upasana lila pita.
6:30In the mantramayi upasana lila pita, there is a Krishna and one group of associates, and one lila is going on, and they are not changing location.
6:41v mantramaya vipassana lila-pithe, есть Krishna, определенная одна группа его спутников и определенная lila, и они, это происходит в одном месте, они места не меняют.
6:51And in the Swarasikhi lila-pithe, then, the lila is in a flow, and Krishna is in one place, changing location, changing location, always changing location, also changing the associates as well, in the different locations.
7:06Svarasika lila, она как бы протекает, и перетекает из одного места другое, и у Krishna меняются группы спутников, с которыми эти lila происходят, сами lila.
7:16So, that is the, for example, the Asakalya lila, Krishna wakes up in a beautiful kunj, in Vrindavan, with Shimati Radhika, then the sakhis come and serve them, as we remember during Mangalartik, but then very soon, Radha and Krishna have to return to their homes. So now Krishna is with another set of associates. He is with Madhya Shodha, Nanda Maharaj, and the Coward Boys, and so on.
7:42Например, Rastakali Lila, потому что утром мы знаем, что Radha и Krishna просыпаются вместе, в Nikunji, и их будят саки, приходят им служить, а потом им, и тогда у нас Мангаларати, и потом им приходится возвращаться домой, и дальше днем происходят другие лилы.
8:02Radhika goes to her home, and she goes to sleep, and her grandmother, Mukhera, comes, oh, oh, Naphtri, oh, Naphtri, my dear granddaughter, why are you still sleeping? The sun has already risen. So now she is with another set of associates.
8:17Radhika возвращается домой, и хочется спать, и она еще спит, и ее будет ее бабушка, и говорит, о, Naphtri, о, внученька, почему ты еще спишь? И таким образом, Radhika тоже меняет группы спутников.
8:29So the devotees, they should realize the mantra maya upasana lila pit, particularly the brindavan yoga pit, first, and when they enter into that, then Radha Krishna and the associates, they will get up and they will go from place to place, and their realization of the mantra maya upasana lila pit will turn into the realization of swarasiki lila pit.
8:50I, таким образом, в первую очередь, преданные должны получить реализацию, осознание, mantra, maya upasana, yoga, pita, vrindavan, lila, pita, и затем, когда они получат эту реализацию, уже там, когда Катха и Кришна, их спутники, двинутся в следующую лилу, то sadhaka получат это вместе с ними тоже.
So, kai valyam satukam gyanam, rajo vai kama chayat, the mode of passion makes vikalpa.
9:23Vikalpa. And Vikalpa always wants to separate. Make things different. Sattva-guna wants to make everything one. So we cannot know the truth by Tamas because in Tamas you don't think. In Rajas you think everything is separate. And in Sattva you think everything is one. And in Satwe we think that everything is one. So by the gunners we cannot know the truth because the truth is acintya bha-bha-bha-tattva. There is a simultaneous oneness, indivisibility of the reality, but it's filled with varieties.
10:05дорожка перевода · текст английскийAnd it turns out that with the gun we cannot know the truth, because the truth is acintya bha-bha-bha-tattva. There is a simultaneous oneness, indivisibility of the reality, but it's filled with varieties.
10:16So, in truth, these Swarasikhi Lilapits, where the pastimes are flowing from place to place, and the Mantra Mayupassana Lilapits, where the pastime is going on in one place, they are not separate, only a Rajasik buddhi makes them, oh, this lila is over there, and this one is over there.
10:33What we call this
10:51Even, this picture we have here it's not really like a target like a bull's eye Because that which is transcendental is a Vyapi, pervading, pervades everywhere.
11:12дорожка перевода · текст английскийThat which is transcendental is a Vyapi, pervades everywhere.
11:20So when we say one is higher than another, it doesn't mean that you have to go up, up, up, like this, but rather it means that That's, the higher dhamms pervade the lower dhamms, but the lower dhamms don't pervade the higher dhamms.
11:54Just like, where is Vrindavan? Vrindavan is here right now, if you have that consciousness.
12:05дорожка перевода · текст английскийBut if you are conscious of Vrindavan, then the mature world is not there, so Vrindavan can be provided here, but this will not provide there.
12:28So, the Swarasakhi, lila and mantramayupasana lila, though they are, they have a vayshishtha speciality, they are actually not separate.
12:38И mantramayupasana lila, и swarashika lila, несмотря на то, что у них есть некие особенности vayshishtha, они на самом деле не отдельно друг от друга.
12:47Only subjectively you may experience one or another.
12:51Просто субъективно вы можете переживать либо один опыт, либо другой.
12:55Just like Krishna, God is only one, there are not many gods.
12:58Podobno тому, как Кришна, один Господь, нет множества каких-то богов.
13:07Кришна явился как Господь Несимхадев.
13:10So it's just like the moon. We say there's a new moon is very thin, and the half moon is like this, and the full moon is... Actually, there's only one moon, but you experience it differently, in different shapes, depending on how much power of that moon you are realizing at that moment.
13:45So we have some vikrita-gyan, distorted experience.
13:52дорожка перевода · текст английскийAnd we have a vikrita dhyan, or we can have not distorted experience, but it is an assampurna, not complete, that is experience of Brahman. If you experience Brahman, there's no vikrity there, there's no distortion in your consciousness, but it's an incomplete realization of the truth. If you experience Paramatma, it is a kandagyaan, it is the truth, but with the designations of the material energy, because Paramatma is having the pastime of manifesting the material world.
14:41So there's some parichinnata, limitation of time and space, which is the upadhi related to that form of God, God as Ishvara, Paramatma.
14:51дорожка перевода · текст английскийIf you understand Paramatma, it will be Akanda-ghyana, because Paramatma is responsible for material creation, and there are some restrictions in time and space.
15:04And when we experience Bhagavan, then it is a Sampurna-ghyana, complete knowledge.
15:17So, the example is given by Srila Jiva Goswami, just like the Ganges flows, some places the Ganges is flowing, and some places it may become very wide, and it's like a lake, so, and then the other side of the lake, then when it becomes narrow again, then it's flowing, so the idea here is that when the lila is flowing, it's Swarasaki lila, And when it stays in one place, then it's like a lake. But the whole thing is the Ganges, it's not two things. Understand?
15:49И Шри Маджи Вагасвами приводит такой пример, чтобы объяснить Сваразик и Лилу, что, например, течет ганга, и где-то она течет узким потоком, а где-то этот поток очень сильно расширяется и превращается в озеро. И, ну, да, и там такое большое озеро, а потом опять сужается. Но на самом деле все это является одной гангой.
16:11So the mantra Mayupassana lila pit is like one lake, it looks like a lake, but it's actually just part of the flow of the other lila, the Swarasi-ki lila.
16:25дорожка перевода · текст английскийAnd mantra Mayupassana lila pit, it is like this lake, but in fact it is not a separate lake, but it is all in the flow of the other lila, the Swarasi-ki lila.
16:39I am describing this, because you raised the question, what about those persons who they want to go into a pastime of Nitya Milanda, Radha Krishna just in the kunjh forever?
16:49дорожка перевода · текст английскийI am talking about this, because you raised the question of Nitya Milanda, where are those sadhaka, who want to serve Radha and Krishna, who are always together?
16:59And there is no Nanda, no Yeshoda, there is no Nanda, no Yeshoda, no coward boys, no cowards, no cowards, no cowards, no cowards, no govardhan, Vrindavan. So, because our Goswami, they have spoken about Astakali-lila, so that influence came there into the Sampradayas who realized the Nityamila.
17:42So, in that one place, Seva Kunj, with one group of associates, but they have different Kunji, so in this yam, Radha Krishna Shaya Kunj, they are resting, and then they go and they eat in this one, and they're bathing and decorating, kirtan in this one, and they're playing games in this one, so it's actually, it is what they are calling the astakalya lila, it's actually mantramayupasana lila, because it's in one place, and one group of associates.
18:14Получается такое наложение, то есть то, что на самом деле вот это одно место, ну допустим, в других самбрадаях, там Денития, Милана, это одно место, где Radha Кришна все время встречается, с Эвакунжа, но там получается, что один ям, это, как промежуток,
18:45дорожка перевода · текст английскийAnd there is a sense in which it is also opulent. And there is a sense in which it is opulent also. Because there is no such thing as a young boy and girl who have no mother, no father.
19:03zhoteva, adha.
19:05...who live in one kunjhi
19:10дорожка перевода · текст английский...they never have to go home
19:16...so it is not really not avat
19:22дорожка перевода · текст английский...so it is a glimpse of the mantra
19:26Maya Uppasana Lila of Radharani Krishna
19:33and a person can go into that moment or that lila and just stay there forever.
19:40дорожка перевода · текст английскийAnd so this is why it's important that
19:50If we want to study Srimad Bhagavatam, sit at the feet of a Vaishnava, hear from them and take complete shelter of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu because without the Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's manifestation of a deeper revelation, you come to that point of the Yoga Pitlila and stay there and don't go any further and then it becomes, it's a true realization, it's not wrong but they stay in that level and that's their Sampradayik, that is the gift of their Sampradaya but if one is under the guidance of Mahaprabhu, So Mahaprabhu revealed more and more and deeper profound things.
21:03So, we can give an analogy, and it's not perfect, but I think you'll get the idea.
21:15When you see something, first you have a raw, unfiltered experience of that, that is called the Nivikalpa Pratyaksh.
21:35And then, in a split second, you cannot even notice it, your intelligence begins to move and it identifies what is the majority of that object. So first you just have an experience, but it's not analyzed. And then your intelligence moves and says this is a tree.
21:51То есть, самое первое, такое сырое восприятие, когда вы еще ничего не успели проанализировать, а потом тут же, в долю секунды, ваш ум двигается, совершает какую-то работу, анализ, и вы понимаете, вы даже этого не замечаете, и вы осознаете категорию, джади, что это, ага, это дерево.
22:14Таким образом вы идентифицируете, понимаете, что это дерево, понимаете, какие у него характеристики.
22:19So that is called Savikalpa Pratyaksh.
22:21дорожка перевода · текст английскийIt is Savikalpa Pratyaksh.
22:22So Jiva Goswami gives an analogy in regard to the realization of Brahman and Bhagavan. Actually the truth is only Bhagavan. But the first in this analogy, Nivikalpa Pratyaksh, the first experience of that truth before one had the realization of the characteristics and the qualities of that truth, That is called Brahman Realization. So he defines the Brahman Realization as a type of Nirvikalpa Pratyaksh of Bhagavan. Understand?
23:21isa.
23:35But in this realization of Brahraman it is not like the material experience which is limited by time.. with the material experience first you have the nevrikalpa and you immediately go to the Savhikalpa pradyaksh, but because this is beyond time, You can come to the nirvikalpa-prataksh of Bhagavan and just stay there forever.
24:00дорожка перевода · текст английскийYou can enter into the Brahman and just be there, and not go any further.
24:26So now I'm coming to the point in regard to your question, and now I'm coming to the point in regard to your question, in the same way, a person who's doing bhajan, he realized Krishna's name, form, qualities, yogapit lila, and he's just stays there forever. And then so, Nityamilana, understand? Radha Krishna always meeting, because he doesn't go further into the Swara Sikilila.
25:07So it's not that the conception within another, the Rasika Sampradaya of Nityamilana, that it's not true. But, it comes to a point and stays there.
25:18дорожка перевода · текст английскийIt doesn't mean that this concept of other Samprada and Nitya Milana is not true. No, it is true, but we should understand that it has a certain limit and it doesn't go on.
25:29That's why Ekanta Asray Koro Chaitanya Tarani, one must take shelter of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu because he has empowered Rupa Goswami and other Goswamis to bring the living entities to more and more profound realizing Srimad representations of Radha Krishna, lila, revealing the full spectrum of Shimatya Radharani's pastimes and emotions.
25:55дорожка перевода · текст английскийSo Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu should be stopped, thank you for your attention.
26:03дорожка перевода · текст английскийKirtanya Mahaprabhu, Kirtanya Mahaprabhu, shilur-ru gue said this because he likes the sriur-ru and other Vedra, so he will give us the chance to follow us on the directions and find the most important and more and more important and more and more believe able to get by knowledge and understand the full spectrum of emotions of the lill I Shemati Rady.
26:23al suggests that Nitya Milan is possible only on Galochis.
26:30Is everything clear?
26:32дорожка перевода · текст английскийIs everything clear?
26:34Nitya Milan is possible only on Galochis. Then, it means that Nitya Milan is possible only in Galochis. If we are only looking at the map, you know, Golok is also not one place, there can also be degrees of Aishwarya and Madhurya, sweetness and opulence, some varying degrees, and also the ages of Krishna, his babyhood, His childhood, and His adolescence. They all have their own prakash, their own separate dimensions where those lilas are simultaneously going on.
27:29So then do you have to add so many different rings here and there? Actually it doesn't work. This is only to give some idea.
27:42дорожка перевода · текст английскийIt's almost impossible. It's just to give a basic idea.
27:47Rikusha.
