англ. название записи: Q&A: Having Many Gurus - 2025-05-31 - Sri Prem Prayojan
0:01Yes, regarding, we see that in the Parampara, we're looking at guru, and we see that there is a line, but in some generations, there may be multiple gurus, and we, how can we have the understanding of that, especially nowadays, there's devotees having different gurus, so how can we understand that?
0:51That was, that was and is always the case and always will be the case.
1:02In Chaitanya Charitamrita, Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Goswami describes the family of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is like a tree. So the roots of the tree, they are the sannyasi disciples of Madhavendra Puri. Madhavendra Puri is the first sprout of that tree and his sannyasi disciples like Paramananda Puri, Brahmananda Bharati. They are the Ishvara Puri, they are the roots of that tree. And from the roots of that tree comes the trunk of the tree. The trunk of the tree is Chaitanya Mahaprabhu himself. And then the trunk has its main branches, Advaita Acarya, Nityananda Prabhu, Gadadhara Pandita, and each of them, they also have their followers and disciples. And so then from the branches, other branches come.
2:01And then from those branches, just like a tree, a branch comes and then it turns into two branches, four branches, six branches, like this. So as long as if a guru has only one disciple, then the same branch continues. But if he has two or more, it may be that among them, there is more than one qualified person.
2:23And so a person may have thousands of disciples and there may not be one qualified disciple even. But if a person has among so many disciples, at least two, then it will branch again. So it's perfectly normal. And it's perfectly normal that any disciple will keep the pictures of his parampara and remember the names of the gurus in his line.
2:53It's not a disrespect to anyone else if you don't say the name of everyone in the whole tree and all the various lines and everything. That's why we say that Ananta Koti Vaishnava ki jaya, all the unlimited Vaishnavas ki jaya. Yes, understand? Yes. Is there anything else you want to clear on that point?
3:18Yeah, some devotees are looking at multiple gurus in one generation, so they may look at one personality guru, another personality guru, so then there is others that may say there is only one guru, maybe in previous generation, That is what they're calling the Ritvik philosophy. It appeared some years ago and then disappeared, mainly was not so influential, and now it's becoming more influential again. First of all, this idea that there's only one guru, it's not found anywhere in history.
4:20What is the question of there being only one guru in a generation? When from the very beginning of our tradition, of course it comes from Lord Brahma, Krishna to Brahma, to Narada and Vyasa and so on, but from the beginning of our Gaudiya tradition, there are six Goswamis, Sanatana Goswami is a guru, Rupa Goswami is a guru, Gopala Bhatta Goswami is a guru, Jiva Goswami, and they're all contemporary at the same time. So there's no question that there's only one guru in a generation. Then the next thing is that this idea that you can be initiated by a guru has become aprakata. There's a lot of confusion over this because let us say someone will say, no, no, you have to have a living guru. And then another person will say, but how can you say Srila Prabhupada is dead? That's an offense. Of course he's living because the devotees, they don't
5:20They don't have the words to express precisely or technically what they mean to say. Of course, every acharya, every guru is living. In fact, everyone who ever existed is living. That's the first teaching of Bhagavad-gita.
5:42Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you nor all these kings, nor in the future shall any of us cease to be. So no one, everyone is living. Right? So that's ridiculous. The point is that the Acharya who is prakata, manifest in this world now, is called mahanta-guru, then when he becomes aprakata, unmanifest, so we don't speak about Acharya as being living or dead, we say either they are prakata, that means manifest to the senses of the people of this world, or aprakata, unmanifest from the senses of the people of this world, but still manifest to those who have divine transcendental senses, they can realize them.
6:22So guru is either prakata or aprakata. But when the guru is prakata, at that time he is called mahanta. That means the present, the Acharya who is present in this world. So in Chaitanya Charitamrita, there is directly stated,
6:59So if you're a conditioned soul, you cannot take instructions and receive initiation from an aprakata guru or the guru in the heart, because the conditioned soul senses do not allow him to interact with the aprakata or transcendental persons who are not manifest now.
7:23So, but these are technical terms and these things are described directly and clearly in the Shastra, but because devotees, they just interpret words, like mahanta means a great person. So then Krishna appears as a great person. But if you only translate it as a great person, now a great person can be prakata or aprakata.
7:44And so now you've lost the meaning of the verse completely.
7:49So let's say the word mahant is used for the abbot of a monastery. So if there's a matha and the head of the matha or the acharya of that matha is called the mahant, everyone knows this. But when he leaves, he's no longer the mahant and someone else has to be appointed the mahant.
8:06So Mahant means a great person, but it specifically means the Acharya, who is prakata, manifest right now. So Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, he spoke on this very clearly, and he said, if you say someone is Jagat Guru, the Guru of the whole world, that is fine, but if you don't have Mahanta Guru, you will not be able to understand the meaning of the words and instructions of the Jagat Guru.
8:38And he pointed this out. This is one of the problems that happens among Christians. I'm not saying Christians don't have a parampara. Many Christians, like Orthodox Christians, and also in the strict Catholics, their idea is that we do have unbroken parampara going back to Jesus' disciples, and that the knowledge can only come in that way.
9:00But in other various types of schismatic Christian sects, they have an idea called sola scriptura. Sola scriptura means we will only take the scripture as the evidence, and everyone has to interpret according to their own, the Holy Spirit will inspire them to understand it. So, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati said, when this idea comes, sola scriptura, in other words, it's all in the books, this type of idea, then the general people will not understand the teachings of the Jagat Guru without the Mahanta Guru, because, as the poet William Blake said, both read the Bible day and night, but one sees black and one sees white.
9:46You go into a crisis of interpretation. And so the crisis of interpretation is resolved by understanding what Shabda-Pramana means. Shabda-Pramana has two meanings. One is a weak meaning and one is the strong meaning. The general meaning of Shabda-Pramana is Shastra. The scripture is Shabda-Pramana. But the strong meaning, that is the vidva, that is the sadhana-ruthi-brati, the ordinary meaning.
10:19But the vidvat-ruddhi-vritti, that means the meaning according to enlightened persons, is shabda-pramana, sound is evidence, means that when a pure devotee speaks, then the sound coming from his lips, live, is Krishna himself, and when you hear it, you have darshan of Krishna, that's the pramana, the proof that Krishna is God, is when you hear the shabda, you see him, this is the actual meaning of shabda-pramana.
10:50So, if you understand the actual meaning of shabda-pramana, then you will never think that you can become initiated or become enlightened or connected to a parampara without shabda-pramana, the sound appearing on the lips of an enlightened pure Vaishnava, because that shabda is only available. It comes out from the heart of the pure Vaishnava and from his lips. And it's not, you cannot capture that in a book or a tape or a video or anything.
11:20And therefore, without direct hearing and direct initiation, there cannot be parampara, according to Vidvat-ruddhi-vritti, the actual meaning of Shastra.
11:34The Ritvik, they call themselves the Ritvik movement, but there's already a name for them. It's called Karta Bhaja. Bhaja means service, and Karta means to the Acharya, or the one who has established the mission. So among 13 apa-sampradayas, This verse describes the 13 apa-sampradayas and among them one is called kartabhaja, the worshippers of the founder of the sect.
12:16Now, there's not a problem in worshipping the founder of any institution, but their particular philosophy is, you can be initiated by one of the founders of the institution after they've become aprakat. So that's one of their specific characteristics of that apasampradaya. So the persons who have this philosophy, they are actually karta bhajan.
12:42And that, and so, Totakari, Terasangi Nahikari, it is said that you should never associate with the members of these 13 Apasampradayas. And this verse is quoted in Jaiva Dharma and many other books of Acharyas. It's there. So it comes from a complete misunderstanding of Gaudiya Epistemology. Gaudiya Epistemology is the transmission of Shabda Brahma.
13:45These persons who come up with this philosophy, they think that they are following shabda-pramana, but they are following pratyaksha-anumana, because by pratyaksha, by their senses, they're looking at the book, and by anumana, by inference, they're trying to figure out what it means. So that is not Shabda-pramana. Shabda-pramana is As soon as you hear this Srimad Bhagavatam, Sri Krishna appears in your heart and never leaves you.
14:21The second verse of Srimad Bhagavatam explains what it means to hear. So they don't understand even the meaning of the Sravanam, Kirtanam, Smaranam, or even the most basic vocabulary of bhakti. They cannot understand. They're interpreting according to sadhana, rudhi, vritti, the way that an ordinary person understands words. But the shastra is not understood in that way. It's understood according to vidvat rudhi, vritti. You can read the book I published last year, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati's Gauḍīya Darśana. If you read my commentary in the back of the book, there's a full explanation of all the vrittis, the powers of words to communicate, and how only vidvat rudhi, vritti gives the correct meaning of shastra.
15:05shastra. So, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati used to say, śabdārtha is not śāstrārtha. The meaning of the words of the scripture is not the meaning of the scripture. He would say, the scripture cannot be understood by the lexicographers. What's a lexicographer? A person who compiles synonyms in a dictionary. So, if you try to understand the scripture just with a dictionary, you will not understand it.
15:39There's a parallel situation that took place after the disappearance of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur. Just as Srila Prabhupada was in this world, he wrote so many books, he gave so many instructions. And then when he left, then actually he told the devotees, if you have questions, you can go to Srila Bhaktirakshaka Sridhara Maharaj, you can go to Srila Narayana Maharaj.
15:59So Prabhupada's intention was that they can continue the Parampara, some of his disciples who are more qualified, they can make disciples, but under the guidance of seniors. So, there's no such thing as Vaishnavism, where you are not under the guidance of your seniors, even if you yourself are a guru, understand? Jiva Goswami was a guru, but he was still under the guidance of Rupa Goswami, Sanatana Goswami, and so on.
16:30Narottama Das Thakura was a guru, he was still under the guidance of Lokanatha Das Goswami, his diksha guru, and Jiva Goswami is shiksha guru. So, all Vaishnavas, they always give honor to their seniors and take advice from them for as long as they're in this world. It's a very sad case if you're the oldest Vaishnava in the world and no one is senior to you.
16:57So, Prabhupada said, go on. And it would have been fine if they had taken guidance from their seniors, even though they were not so qualified. By being under their guidance, they'll continue to grow at a more rapid pace than their disciples. and then the whole train can keep moving because the engine is pulling and it's pulling the next one and the next one gradually. Everything can go on in an acceptable way. However, because certain persons, they didn't want others to go to those who are senior, so they said, oh, everything is in Prabhupada's books and now in the form of the Ritvik movement, that duplicity and that instruction has come back to to bite them on the rear end, on the posterior section.
17:51So as soon as you become, you have some ulterior motive and you try to twist what the scripture is saying, but you cannot get away with it, it will come back to bite you. And that is the Ritvik movement, the modern incarnation of the Ritvik movement, which is just the reincarnation of the Kartabhaja movement.
18:13So there was a similar situation after the disappearance of Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Sarasvati Thakur. That were to speak of those who had never met him misunderstanding his books. Even those who had met him and were initiated by him also were misunderstanding his books because they were still conditioned souls. Unless you're a liberated soul at the time when your guru leaves, you cannot fully understand the teaching of your guru without the help of another liberated soul.
18:42So Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Sarasvati Thakur wrote one article, it's called 'Thakura Bhakti Vinoda'. You should very carefully study this article. There Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Sarasvati Thakur said, 'Even though Srila Bhakti Vinoda Thakura has left this world not so long ago, but already so many misunderstandings and so much confusion has arisen in regard to understanding the meaning of his instructions and his books.' So in the article, Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Sarasvati Thakur said, there are persons who have memorized every word and every page and every paragraph of the books of Srila Bhakti Vinoda Thakura, but still they don't understand what he's saying. They misunderstand it.
20:36submissive service until that sound pierces the covering of our ear, and we have the darshan of the shabda-arca-vigraha, the sound deity of Krishna through the hearing process. So we discussed this when we were in Mantra Central last week, that in the Upadeśāvalī of Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Sarasvati Thakur, there it is said, a person can only have the first darshan of Sri Krishna while listening to Harikatha, coming from the lips of a pure Vaishnava. There is no other way to have Krishna's darshan. It's one of the 24 instructions that comprise the final teachings of Bhakti Siddhanta before he left this world. It's called Upadeśāvalī.
21:29So, there is no doubt about this. We have given many examples and illustrations from history and from the writings of our Acharyas, from Srimad Bhagavatam. And so, don't be misled by those who don't even understand the vocabulary of Vaishnavism, the words that Vaishnavas use. So, how can they even put them together and make a coherent sentence?
21:58Gaur-premanande-hari-haribol.
22:02Aaaaaa
