0:01Yes, Professor Degra, my question actually is related also to the question which was Rasik asked yesterday regarding Raganuga Bhakti, because we know that some famous Vaishnavas before appearance of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in this world, such as, for example, Jayadeva Goswami, Vidyapati, and also as well,
0:54Bilvamangal Thakur, their praise, their practices also related to Raganuga-bhakti. All of them, we can think about them like the Nitya Parikars or the citizens of spiritual world appearance and they, actually my questions, I have two parts in my
1:23guests, javakage, sh rivals,erdote, frakkel, n Subbi, kapa, katuke, n Mabankuability, sol- agradermenakor hai maismanithasus Kaisaritamrita,
1:55also related to bhakti. It also was planned before appearance of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Can we think that it also was planned? Thank you.
2:11Yes. And prior to the appearance of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, there are some, in history, there are some rare, very high-level Vaishnavas who have revealed something about Madhurya rasa. And ultimately, this is the contribution to Gauranga-lila, it is the will of the Lord, otherwise, when Mahaprabhu comes to this world, then what poetry will he relish?
2:44Gita Govinda is a very important part of the pastimes of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Krishna Karnamrita, also a Bilvamangal Thakura, it's a very important part, and poetry of Chandidas and Vidyapati. So, by the will of the Lord, some eternal associates have appeared in this world.
3:13Just like Krishna makes Parjanya Maharaj, his own grandfather, appear first, and then his father and mother, and then Krishna appears. So before the appearance of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, there is the sprouts of the Kevala-madhurya-maya Upasana coming in the form of Madhavendra Puri, and then Ishwara Puri. And some great Vaishnavas here and there, earlier than that, like Jayadeva Goswami and Bilvamangal Thakura, and they set the scene, and also give some, Mahaprabhu is quoting from the pramana of Mahajans, also, Mahajan pramana, like that, so you can see in that way.
4:32and among the vibhāva there is ālambana and uddīpana. Uddīpana means the things which stimulate love for Krishna and ālambana means the shelters of rati. The shelters of rati also stimulate love. So Krishna is the viṣaya-ālambana so he can, Krishna himself is a vibhāva because he is the object of the love of the devotees and he has love for his devotees also. And the devotees are the āśraya-ālambana. So ālambana means support, sorry. Shelter is a similar word, but better to say, ālambana is the support of rati. So what supports rati? The viṣaya and the āśraya. So Krishna is the viṣaya of rati and the devotee is the āśraya. And so these are all in the category of vibhāva, things that stimulate your own sthāyī-bhāva. Now among the āśraya, the shelters of rati, they can also be
6:15Understand? And therefore, when it is said that Bilvamangal Thakur is an example of a sādhaka, then we can say, when we hear about his life history, how he progressed from being entangled with the courtesan, Cintāmaṇi, and how she chastised him, and then how his rati, which was from a previous life, was just covered over, just like if there is a fire, and then the fire is going out.
6:48You see ash, but underneath the ash, there's still some red embers. So the saṃskāras of rati from his previous life, they were there in Bilvamangal Thakur, and when Cintāmaṇi chastised him, she said, "Oh, if you were so eager, if you were so attached to Krishna, as you are to my body, then your life would be a success." And that was like blowing away the ash and then the embers of rati from previous life were beneath and that fire came out and so then he left everything and he went and he took shelter of Somagiri, dīkṣā from his dīkṣā guru Somagiri and then he left and he went to Vrindavan.
7:40So, let us say, the life history of Bilvamangal Thakur, when we hear it, and how he realized Krishna, then that can stimulate rati, for a devotee, so here, Bilvamangal Thakur, he is the sādhaka, it means that his pastimes are such that he plays the role of the sādhaka, and hearing which, he can be the āśraya-ālambana, a vibhāva that stimulates your love, understand?
8:13This is the meaning. So even though it is said that Bilvamangal Thakur is the example of a sādhaka, it does not necessarily mean that he's not a siddha, right? Because Krishna makes his associates appear in the world in order to teach us. But in regard to hearing about the devotees, then he's an example of the vibhāva that stimulates your love, but of the two, there's the siddha, and you can hear about his pastimes as a sādhaka, overcoming his difficulties and becoming perfect and that can stimulate like this.
8:57So even though it is said that Bilvamangal Thakur is the example of a sādhaka, then how will it be that Gaurāṅga Mahaprabhu is appearing in every day of Lord Brahma and then he's taking shelter of the writing of a sādhaka like this in every day of Lord Brahma? So we should see him also as an extraordinary personality who has been sent into this world.
9:23But as I mentioned to Rasik-śekhara yesterday, Narottama Dāsa Ṭhākura says,
9:31There are great Mahajans and we should follow the Mahajans, but there are two categories, the previous Mahajans and the later Mahajans. So the later Mahajans are the six Goswamis. Why? Why? Because when Gaurāṅga Mahāprabhu appeared, he came to give what was never given before, and that is the Mañjarī-bhāva. So previously, some Nāyikā-bhāva has been expressed, heroine's mood, definitely in Gīta-govinda, the heroine's mood, that is Rādhārāṇī's mood, is expressed, and also Sakhī's mood. So apart from Krishna, there are two main characters in Gīta-govinda, the Rādhārāṇī and one Sakhī, and she's going backwards and forwards.
10:20So the Sakhī's mood has been expressed by Jayadeva Gosvāmī, and Sakhī-bhāva has been expressed by Bilvamangal Ṭhākura as well, and by Vidyāpati and Caṇḍīdāsa. But the Mañjarī-bhāva, it has not been revealed or expressed before. So though we respect and we honor the great Mahājanas prior to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, but we discriminate and we follow the later Mahājanas, those are the Six Gosvāmīs, because they are the, the repositories of the special bhāva that Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted to give, and he's distributing the Rādhā-dāsyam through those persons.
11:07Now, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, he has, we are indebted to him, because he has given us three amṛtas, that is, Govinda-līlāmṛta, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and he has given us the Sāraṅga-raṅgadā-ṭīkā. the commentary on Bilvamangal Ṭhākura's Karṇāmṛta, so we're indebted to Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī for these three amṛtas, and because Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī is an incarnation of one of the Aṣṭa-mañjarīs, Kaṅkalī-mañjarī, so in his commentary on Kṛṣṇa-karṇāmṛta, though it's, he's a pūrva-mahājana, and he's shown in his poetry, the nāyikā-bhāva and the sakhī-bhāva, Rādhikā-nāyikā, and he has expressed mood as a sakhī, But, because Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja is Kaṅkalī-mañjarī, he has the expressed layers of meaning in the verses of Kṛṣṇa-karṇāmṛta.
12:23So, he has shown how the verses are the direct words of Rādhārāṇī. He has shown how the words can be the direct words of Bilvamangal Ṭhākura, as a sādhaka, giving a teaching to his disciples who were following him on his journey to Vrindavan. And he has given a meaning of the verses according to the perspective of the mañjarīs Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja has because he's in mañjarī-bhāva. So this shows us that even if there is a verse and it does not appear to be in mañjarī-bhāva, but anyway, those who are in mañjarī-bhāva will interpret it from the perspective of mañjarī-bhāva.
13:38This is Rādhikā. Mahāprabhu is speaking in the mood of Rādhikā. And if we'll say that "yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa", one moment, is like millions of years, then what stage of prema is this?
13:57sneha, māna, praṇaya, anurāga, rūḍha-bhāva, the anubhāvas, the reactions of rūḍha-bhāva are "nimeṣa-sahita-jñānajātā-ruj-vilolanāt", the inability to tolerate separation for the blinking of an eye, "kṣaṇaka-kalpatā", and one moment seems like thousands of years, so it can be moved from rūḍha-bhāva onwards, rūḍha, so this is a Rādhārāṇī,
14:38speaking in this mood, but because Rūpa Gosvāmī and our ācāryas, they're in mañjarī-bhāva, and they feel the anxiety of Rādhikā, and they value this service of trying to pacify Rādhārāṇī in her state of separation, then, so, Bhakta-ji was saying, oh, what's the meaning of this verse, that someone told to the mañjarī, "Oh, go and help Rādhārāṇī", and then she was running there, and saw that Rādhārāṇī was in this condition, and then thinking, how can I bring Rādhā and Krishna together, like Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said, When I see the condition that Rādhikā is in, in separation from Śrī Krishna, I cannot tolerate it.
15:53for the sake of bringing Krishna together with Radharani to give her relief from this viraha-dasha that I cannot tolerate. I am ready to give up my life to do this. You see? So even though the verse itself is spoken by Mahaprabhu, but the verse itself is Radhika's bhava, but those who are in Manjari bhava will experience the verse from the vantage point of the Shri Krishna, virahe, Radhika, radha, asha, amato, saritinari, and that bhava will come, understand?
16:31So, even though the Mahajans who came before Mahaprabhu, they didn't reveal Manjari bhava, now Mahaprabhu has revealed the Manjari bhava, those previous poems can be relished by that perspective, by qualified persons who have that sambandha-jnana, yeah? Understand?
16:52Or then, oh, it's very difficult to make the shift because it's in another rasa. But the question about Jesus Christ, yes, is it the plan of the Lord? Everything is the plan of the Lord. What is not the plan of the Lord? In fact, when we become free from pratak-darsha, we're to speak of everything, that things are not the plan of the Lord. There's nothing which is not directly the Lord even.
17:30Just like in the 11th chapter of Bhagavad Gita, when Arjuna saw the universal form, you know, in the beginning of Bhagavad Gita, he's seeing the soldiers on this side and the soldiers on that side, and he's having an emotional crisis, and he's speaking to Krishna. Krishna. But when Krishna showed him the virat-rupa, then he said, oh Krishna, you yourself are all the soldiers on both sides. So is something the plan of the Lord? Yes, of course. Everything is ultimately the virat-rupa of the Lord.
18:12But out of pratak-darsha, a vision of separation, due to our own vimukta, due to our own turning away from Sri Krishna, then we think that everything is separate from Sri Krishna. If we turn towards Krishna, we'll never see anything separate from Sri Krishna.
18:37This is the first teaching of the Chatu-shloki Bhagavatam. Before the creation of the world, only I exist. And when the creation is dissolved, only I exist. And in the middle, actually, it's also me. But this type of knowledge, this type of understanding, this is like adhyatma-deepa, you know, it is said Srimad Bhagavatam is compared.
19:11three metaphors have been given to describe what Srimad Bhagavatam is like. Adhyatma-deepa, just like Suta Goswami prayed to Sukadeva Goswami, his guru, before speaking in his
19:36that this Srimad Bhagavatam is adhyatma-deepa, it illuminates the atma-tattva, that means the relation between atma and paramatma. But then Srimad Bhagavatam is described to be like the sun.
20:00This Srimad Bhagavatam has arisen like the sun in this age of Kali to give light to those whose eyes have been darkened. When Sri Krishna left this world, along with Dharma and Jnana, then where did Dharma and Jnana go to shelter? So when Krishna left this world, along with Dharma and Jnana, then the Srimad Bhagavatam rose like the sun to illuminate everything.
20:35So Srimad Bhagavatam is compared to the sun and Srimad Bhagavatam is compared to It is the mature, ripened, juicy fruit of the Vedas. So these three metaphors in relation to Srimad Bhagavatam, they refer to first Adhyatma Deep is that vision, like Arjuna, So, Oh my Lord, you are everything. It's an atma-paramatma relationship. Two things exist, atma and paramatma. Just like when Hamsa Avatar gave instructions to the four Kumaras, he said, oh, what you experience, waking, dreaming, and deep sleep, but you are none of these things, you are the sakshi, you are the witness of those states.
21:38so then Hamsa said that's you and everything else is me you see so this is adhyatma-deepa. What are all the forms of this world they are first and foremost and primarily the forms of paramatma and secondarily they're all the things that we speak about in conventional language that's why the Vedanta sutra gives this conclusion that chara-achara-vyapashraya-sthasya, vyapadesho, bhakta-tat-bhava, bhavet-ut, that because the Supreme Lord is the substrate of all moving and non-moving living entities, therefore every word is first and foremost and primarily a name of God, and secondarily only it refers to the things that we think about as we conceive objects.
22:48In conventional, everyday speech, a-girudhi-vritti. In a-girudhi-vritti, the words mean what common people think they mean. But in vidvad-vritti, every word is the name of God. So that's adhyatma-div. Bhagavatam is like that. And so all the chapters in Bhagavatam which describe how Supreme Lord has his pradhana, the ingredient cause of the world, which is prime matter, which is just pure potential, without any distinguishing manifest features. And then Paramatma enters into that and causes it to transform into all the elements. And then the elements combine and become all the bodies and the things that we see around. And therefore, all the forms are Paramatma. All these descriptions that you find in the second canto, the third canto, the 11th canto, this is the aspect of Bhagavatam, which is Adhyatma-div.
23:50It's revealing the relation between atma and paramatma and the world So if the answer is is something part of God's plan Yes Because Kaal, time Is The Cheshta. The activity of the Lord. And it expresses the icha of the Lord. Mahavishnu glances towards Ramadevi. And then. The shadow of his glance unites with.
24:27The shadow of Ramadevi. And the material creation goes on. So glancing means desire. If you desire something, then you look. So because the Supreme Lord looks at Ramadevi, the halo of his glance is actually Lord Shiva and it unites with the shadow of Ramadevi, that is Maya Devi. And so the creation of the world comes from the glance of the Lord. So it's his desire, not directly, but the abhasa of his desire. So yes, everything in this world is going on. It's the abhasa of the desire of the Lord.
25:45but he sends his representative like Jesus Christ, Bhaktisiddhanta Thakura has said. So you should see it like that. Yes. Ramananda.
26:02Thank you, Gurudev. I have a question related to yesterday's class. Oh, just to touch on that. So, this idea, yes, it's the plan of the Lord, but this is in the realm of the abhasa of his desire. It's connected to understanding Bhagavatam as adhyatma-dīpa. What is Bhagavatam as the sun? That is the direct incarnations, the leelas of Lord Nrsimhadeva, Varahadeva and so on, Lord Ramachandra, that's like the sun. But then the parts of Bhagavatam that deal directly with Krishna leela, now Bhagavatam becomes like the juicy fruit of it.
26:52So, these are vantage points, these are perspectives. So, we want to be in that perspective of relishing the juicy fruit of
27:18But, for the sake of, according to our stage, first we'll have to understand how it's adhyatma-dīpa. If you don't understand, you have not realized the adhyatma-dīpa aspects, then if you try to relish the rasa, you'll be sahajiyā, imitation, because you haven't realized the basic atma-tattva yet, and the relation between Krishna and Maya, and these things.
27:47But the person who is relishing rasa, they have the skill that they can shift frames of reference, depending on their audience, and depending on the question, they are in this frame of reference. of rasa. But they can shift their frame of reference to give appropriate answers to persons in different levels of consciousness. And this is why it is said that Sri Guru is Uttama-bhāgavata, but he shifts his frame of reference to the level of Madhyama-bhāgavata in order to preach. Otherwise he could not preach. Because if he was seeing from the frame of reference of the Uttama-bhāgavata, then there would be no one to preach to.
28:31because Uttama-bhāgavata sees his own Krishna in everyone else but thinks, I have no Krishna. Understand? So, because there's a tendency in the conditioned stage to only have one frame of reference because you have not realized more and more and no ability to move and everything becomes confusing. How can I love Krishna, coward boy in Vrindavan, when every word is a name of Krishna and every form everywhere is Krishna, and they just, it becomes like a kitchari in the mind. And so these are frames of reference, according to the level of consciousness, according to whether one is experiencing the Bhagavatam as a deep, a light, or a blazing sun, or the fruit of, but a person cannot be in all the frames of reference at the same time. So don't be confused. Yes, sorry, your question.
29:42So my question is about yesterday's topic of priti. So we've heard that we cannot say that prema, the priti, is the energy which the lover, means the bhakta, can manifest. But can we say, because this verb is intransitive, so can we say the same the other way around? So, for example, would it be correct to say that Kṛṣṇaḥ bhaktiṁ prīṇāti, for example? And if it's correct, then is it because prema, according to the Rasa-vicāra, though the prema is śakti of the Lord,
30:37and actually he is capable to use it to control it even, but according to the rasa-vicāra we can say that prema makes everyone dance, Krishna devoting everyone, that's why we use this verb as intransitive verb. This example is not given but it's a reasonable conclusion to me because
31:25Prema makes Krishna dance, prema makes the devotee dance, and prema itself dances, and all three dance together.
31:35Very interesting. But it's also, there's a shift of frame of reference here, because we're talking about the tattva, we're discussing the tattva of priti, but then it's going into the līlā because there are analogies on the different levels. Let's say a devotee in this world, they have to give up the kartṛtva-abhimāna and the prīti is a manifest in them and so relative to their sādhaka form they feel that I am not the doer, I am not the doer.
32:21But then, in the siddha-abhimāna, there's a feeling like that, because it's human-like, you understand? But then, when Mahābhāva appears, then the analogous experience of the person becoming free from the kartṛtva-abhimāna is there, understand there? And that's where Krishna said, oh, the gopi's love is such a thing, It's like a yogi going into trance and giving up his kartṛtva-abhimāna, like this.
33:01So, yeah, don't get, don't get, there are frames of reference and they are analogous, the different levels are analogous to each other. Does it understand? I think not so many people will understand, but Ramananda Rai, he's studying very seriously and doing vichar, And you must do it. You must do it. Yesterday we told some points. It was for the senior devotees who are studying for many, many years, and they want to enter deeply into what Goswamis have given. Neophyte devotee becomes frustrated. Oh, what is this? I can't understand.
33:50and then the big, this is not important, it's not important, why? Because I can't understand it, so it's important. So this is only ahankara false ego, eh? This is only ahankara false ego, eh? This is the sour grapes, like the fox, he's trying to get the grapes, but he cannot reach, oh, these grapes are sour. So it comes from false ego, because the neophyte, in the first stage, then the devotee, If he cannot understand something, then he becomes depressed.
34:35Srila Visvanatha Thakura described this in Madhurya Kadambini, the first stage of bhakti is utsahamyi, that means beginner's enthusiasm.
34:49And so the beginner, he says, oh bhakti, this is good, yes, I can chant Hare Krishna, I can sing kirtan, play mrdanga, I know Bhagavad-gita, you are not the body, I'll go around and tell everyone you are not the body and share with them my enlightened perspective. You are not the body, but I need ice cream. If I don't have a pizza and some chocolate, I'll die. And giving instructions to everyone, you are not the body. So, this is beginner's enthusiasm. Utsahamayī. But what's the next stage? Ghanatarala means thick and thin. Sometimes he's very intense in service and sometimes he becomes completely slack. But why? Why does he become slack?
35:44because, Visvanatha Thakura gives the example, there was one boy, he went to school, and then he learns how to write, a, a, i, i, u, u, and then he said, oh, I'm a pandit. But then he went to, he went to a higher class to listen, and he could not understand anything, and then he becomes, he loses his enthusiasm. So these These are the stages of the neophyte devotee can become depressed because at first learns a few things and thinks, I am great. And then afterwards you cannot understand something. And so he becomes depressed because, not because he's humble, but because he's proud. Oh, I so much want to be great, but now I'm realizing I'm not great. It's terrible. Right?
36:48So, Visvanatha Thakura is describing the psychological status from the beginner's enthusiasm and then the alternation between being engaged and being slack and spaced out due to finding that actually this subject is more involved than I previously envisioned and it comes as a shock, it comes as a surprise. So, it is for this very reason that Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Goswami says, When it comes to Siddhanta, don't be a lazy fellow.
37:33Alasya means laziness. Just like we were saying, there were 33 vyabhicari-bhavas. But the gopis in Madhura, there's two that they don't have them. One is Alasya. They don't have laziness. That's the transcendental laziness. transcendental laziness is fine. Madhu Mangal can have that sometimes. It's a type of ecstasy for him. But in this world, it's not fine. It's actually tamoguna, the mode of ignorance. So, siddhanta, bali, Krishnadasa Kaviraja, alas. Don't be lazy when it comes to siddhanta. Why is Krishnadasa Kaviraja Goswami saying this? Because it's a challenge. It's a struggle. It requires you to be focused and dedicated and not
38:22distracted, because a distracted mind cannot have deep thoughts. If you have ADHD, attention deficit disorder, then you can only think in a superficial way about anything. You cannot go deeply into anything, because to go deeply into anything, you have to think about it with full concentration, without being distracted by something else. And as you become more and more concentrated, then ekagrata comes, one-pointedness, and that goes through levels, savitarka, nirvitarka, savicara, nirvicara, so only come to the level of vicara, siddhanta vicara, tatva vicara, rasa vicara, only to come to the level of deliberation, then you'll have to pass through the stages of satarka and vitarka, that is, is it like this?
39:28Is it like that? Argumentation. Even that Savitarka and Nirvitarka, the philosophical argumentation. Is it like this? Is it like that? This is in the stage of Ekagrata. It's not before Ekagrata. And Vicara is the next deep level of Ekagrata. So one-pointed attention is necessary only to be confused, actually, because at first, You don't even know enough to know that you don't understand. Understand? At first, a person does not have enough information or understanding to understand that they don't understand. And then when they go into Ekagrata, then they can see all the components of the subject, and they're concentrating, Ekagrata, and they're concentrating on all the components, but they have not yet understood how to put them together.
40:40and so it becomes savitarka and then when it they understand how the components come together it becomes nirvitarka now I'm not is it like this or like no it's definitely like this and then vicara comes the level of vicara to do vicara on the siddhanta you see so it takes effort to go into the siddhanta vicara and that's why Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Goswami said
41:53So Siddhanta baliyad, calling it Siddhanta, out of laziness, this thing happens. So you say, don't do that, because If you make the effort, then your mind will become sudhrid, it will become firmly fixed on Krishna. And many, because let's say the devotees, who have been studying this subject, meticulously, step by step, systematically, You can ask them, what type of illumination takes place when you finally understand something?
42:40What kind of ullasa, illumination of the heart, takes place when you understand something? For a long time you didn't understand, but you were trying, trying, trying, and then you realize, ah, this is what it is. And you don't go back, and the citta is expanding, expanding, all the time. So, our Goswamis, they have shown us the way through Shastra, and mainly by reading, we'll not understand so much, mainly we'll understand by hearing, mainly we'll understand by Shabda Brahma, we hear transcendental sound in a surrendered mood, and then the citta-vritti of that subject is transferred into the heart, and even though we may not catch it at once, if we go on chanting, it will be the
43:35uncovered. So you should consider this. If there's something that you don't understand today, don't be disheartened. Think, oh, I am so lucky that the air that touched this katha is touching me. I've been touched by the air that was touched by this katha. You should think like this and that the potential is there. Now I have heard this. The potential is there that in the future one day I can realize what this This means, Gaura Premanande.
