0:01You can raise your hand if you have a question.
0:26Yes, not at this point. Thank you, Srila Prabhupada. So my question is about Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, because we know that he comes and he also teaches by his own example. So I always had this question about his receiving sannyas, not from a Vaisnava guru, no? And because we know that when he appeared also he prepared his lila making appearing before him some other associate that will be favorable for his mission so I was thinking why he didn't made because he received initiation from Ishvara Puri who if I'm correct he received sannyas in the Madhva line so he's a Vaisnava line so why when he took sannyas, he took this decision of receiving him from a Mayavadi line and not from maybe from other line who are Vaisnava, maybe in South India or somewhere.
1:44So the question is, if Mahaprabhu has come to this world to teach bhakti by his own example, Why did he take sannyas in the line of Shankaracharya? Why did he not take from a Vaishnava sannyasi? So this is the question. So the question itself is something wrong. Because first of all, Keshava Bharati is a Vaishnava. Keshava Bharati is a Vaishnava. And he is a disciple of Madhavendra Puri also. So Keshava Bharati was actually a great Vaishnava.
2:24Only in Bengal at that time, and in other places as well, during that period, the sannyas vidhi, of the line of Shankaracharya, the Dashanami sannyasis, sannyasis who accept, there are in, let me see, there is one Samhita, and it has 108 names of sannyasis, Of those 100 names, only 10 are accepted in the line of Shankaracharya, so they're called Dasanami Sannyasas.
3:10And so, when Mahaprabhu received Sannyas, he said that, I have only accepted this cloth, I have only accepted the dress of the Sannyasi,
3:38The meaning is, I have accepted the renounced order. So, within Varnashram Dharma, the fourth order is the Sannyas Ashram. And this Sannyas Ashram is an arrangement within Varnashram Dharma to transcend Varnashram Dharma. Understand? So, whether the Ashram is in a Vaishnava, receiving from a Vaishnava, Vaishnava Sampradaya, or from the Shankar's Vidhi, according to Vidhi, it's still just a change.
4:16range of ashram, you understand? So, and it just so happens that Keshava Bharati is a Vaishnava, he's disciple of Madhavendra Puri, and so he received sannyas, first of all, from a Vaishnava, only the vidhi, that means the ritual by which he received it, was the one that was popular at that time historically, and spread everywhere, and respected by all the people. So, Mahaprabhu, after taking sannyas, he said, paratmanishtam, matraveshadharam, the purpose of moving from the ashram in which there are some social responsibilities to mother, to the wife, to feeding guests and all the responsibilities which are there with the grihastha ashram.
5:12Now, the sannyas ashram is the ashram which is the facility within Varnashram Dharma to transcend Varnashram Dharma. So, the responsibility of that ashram is paratmanishtam, to become fixed in the realization of Atma and the Supreme Soul. So, Mahaprabhu said, I have accepted this veish, this cloth, paratmanishtam, matra, the word matra means only, veishadharam, veishadharam.
5:44I have accepted this cloth only for paratmanishta, and mukunda sevaya hoy, sangsarataran, and to be delivered from samsara, from this material, by mukunda seva, service to Mukunda So there's no question of any kind of Advaitavadi or Shankarites or Mayavad conception, anywhere, in Mahaprabhu or even in his Sannyasguru as well So, another thing to consider is this, that you can say, well Mahaprabhu took diksha in the Madhva line, why not take diksha from Tirtha or someone, all the sannyasis in the line of Madhva are called Tirtha.
6:38So Madhavendra Puri is called Puri because he received diksha from Lakshmipati Tirtha when he was a householder before his sannyas and then later he took sannyas from Vishnu Puri. So, Madhavacharya himself, he was very young when he took sannyas, and at that time, Shankaracharya's influence was very powerful everywhere, and Madhavacharya himself took sannyas from a follower of Shankaracharya.
7:18So, if you say, Mahaprabhu is not following Madhavacharya because he took according to the vidhi of Shankaracharya, well, Madhavacharya himself took sannyas according to the vidhi of Shankaracharya. like this, sorry, in Shankaracharya's line. So, that does not make him less of a follower, less following or respecting the tradition of Madhva, he actually did exactly what Madhva did as well. So, you should see it in this way.
7:45Another thing is that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, he is Saragrahi, he focuses on the essence, and so if the form is something somewhat unconventional, that's not problematic for Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, he is pursuing the essence, and this is why he accepted as his associates, though he is a Brahmin, from Brahmin background, but he is very close and saying to Haridasa Thakura, we are the same caste, why?
8:23Why? Because of the essence. In essence, I am Satchidananda and you are Satchidananda. He accepted Ramananda Rai, who was like a, he was a government official, very wealthy, living a life of opulence, but he was completely detached. Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya, he had so many associates from different walks of life. Now one thing is that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu appeared for also one aspect of his lila, is to preach.
8:58And so for bhakti to spread everywhere, it's necessary to overcome the influence of Mayavad. So by accepting the sannyas in the Shankarite order, then he became the object of some affection from those who were in Shankar's line, like Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya, you say, oh, this young sannyasi, let me teach him Vedanta to help him.
9:26Oh, he's also from my village. Oh, my father was friends with Nilambar Chakravarti. And so, somehow or other, Mahaprabhu did lila in such a way to attract that there should be affection towards him. The same when he went to Kashi. The leader of all the Shankarites was Prakashananda Sarasvati in Kashi. So he was saying, oh, he's, he was saying, he's in our line. Why is he sitting outside? Come and sit inside with us.
9:56So, on the one hand, Mahaprabhu just accepted the renounce order in order to become completely focused on, entertaining Krishna, by setting that example. On the other hand, he didn't take from a Shankarite, it was a Vaishnava. And on the other hand, it was also like a cover that he could infiltrate easily into the Shankarite community, and they would feel some possessiveness for him.
10:20And then they would have some piety from that, transcendental piety from that, and then he converted them all. So another thing is that Mahaprabhu is trinad api suni chena, more humble than a blade of grass. So it's so heartbreaking when you see his humility. And when Mahaprabhu met with Ramananda Rai, then Ramananda Rai said, I'm just a sudra, because he was from the Karana caste. They're like Kayasthas in Orissa, there's a caste called Karana caste, so they're technically sudras, but they're very expert in management and economics and all those things, so they became very powerful, and they would generally be in the employment of kings, and then they would use their financial networks and contacts in the service of the government.
11:45sannyasi, you see, so then that's, there's also that, that aspect of his lila, of course he's not a mayavadi, but only because he accepted the sannyas ashram, according to the vidhi of Shankaracharya, then he could plausibly say, I am a mayavadi, because there's no one who has less bhakti than a mayavadi, a mayavadi has no, mayavadi is the most extreme antithetical position that you can take against bhakti, So this is also part of Mahaprabhu's humility as well. Is it clear? This is a sampradaya vichar. It's very subtle. Very often people are hasty in coming to their conclusions and seeing things, measuring them from the external perspective without understanding the mood, the heart, the historical context, all of these things.
12:53Therefore, it is only possible to understand sampradaya tattva, the actual true nature of the sampradaya, by hearing from one who has heard, but from one who has heard, from one who has heard, from one who has been enlightened into the tattva of the sampradaya. Otherwise, just reading books here and there, there are so many opinions, and you'll just make up your opinion based on a mixture of those opinions. Yes, raise your hand if you have a question.
13:28Damodar Vilas. Srila Gurudev, previously you mentioned about Bhagavat Sampradaya and Diksha Sampradaya and it's look like... First, first, make it clear. Bhagavat Guru Parampara and Pancharatrika Guru Parampara. Ah, yes. Bhagavat Guru Parampara. Does it mean that we can attain Goloka Vrindavan without diksha mantras, without diksha initiation?
14:30and does it mean that we can attain Goloka Vrindavan without diksha or not and did accept Rupa Goswami, Sanatana Goswami, diksha from Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu or not and where is it written that Rupa and Sanatana received diksha from Chaitanya Mahaprabhu? I'm asking, from anyone, they received diksha or not? And the power of diksha mantra is depend from the quality of guru. If Nishtadhikari gives diksha mantra, it will work or not? Thank you.
15:13Okay, so, first of all, you should know that, historically speaking, in the Vedic tradition, there were at least 12 different schools or ways in which the knowledge will pass down. They have names like the Bhagawat school, the Pancharatrika school, the Vaikhanasa school. Most of these, Bhaktivinoda Thakur has given the list of the different schools.
15:49But in Kali Yuga, only two have, they are still, the tradition is still going on, and that is the Pancharatrika school, and the, oh, there was the Vaikhanasa school, the Sattvata school, and, but in this Kali Yuga, the Bhagavad school and the Pancharatrika school, they are still continuing. And so, when you study the Sandarbhas of Srila Jiva Goswami, then, and also Mahaprabhu, explain to Sanatana Goswami, Pancharatra Bhagavate E Lakshankai, the symptoms of bhakti are described in these two schools, Pancharatra school and Bhagavata school.
16:39And in the Sandarbhas, Jiva Goswami, from the very beginning, Atanatva mantragurum, gurun bhagatatadam. First I give my pranam to my mantra guru and then to the gurus from whom I received the Bhagavat. And this theme of pancharatriki diksha, because the actual process of diksha means pancharatri diksha, it's a ritual within the pancharatri school. Understand? So when people say diksha, they may or may not be aware of it, but it's a process given in the pancharatra.
17:17so, and it's a part of Pancharatra, means the Archan school, school of Archan, so the theme is there again and again as you go through the Sandarbhas of Jiva Goswami, just like we discussed the other day, it is said that a person contained perfection by his Bhagavat, Shastra Upad, Drastha Guru, the person who instructed him in the Bhagavatam, or by his Mantra Guru, So again and again it comes. Also in the discussion of different levels of Vaishnavas, the qualification of Konishtam, Madhyama and Uttama is given in the Pancharatric school. And then afterwards, the qualifications in the Bhagwat school are given as well. And they're not the same, because in the description of the Uttama Adhikari, all the qualifications of the Uttama Adhikari are given in Bhaktisandarabha and in the
18:27The explanation, Jiva Goswami said, this refers to the panchartic school, because the qualities of the Uttama Adhikari don't mention in the list of qualities that he has Krishna Prem. It says he's expert in this, and he's expert in that, and he can do this and that. And Jiva Goswami said, you should take it that this is an explanation of the Uttama Adhikari in the panchartic school, because Prem is not mentioned. Whereas in the Bhagavat school, Prema Maitri Krupalpa Ikshayi, Ya karoti samadhyama, Prem is mentioned for the Madhyam Bhagavat in the Bhagavat school, understand? So this theme, it comes again and again. And only those who are prejudiced, who don't know the history and are not deeply versed in the Sandharabhas, they think, oh, what is this Bhagavat Guru Parampura? They are quite ignorant of history and of Shastra and of Siddhanta. So this is the first thing.
19:30Then the next question. Do you need to take diksha to attain perfection? And the answer is yes, you do. But no, a person can attain prema without diksha, but not you. You see, in principle, it's possible to attain prema without diksha. I never saw that when Mahaprabhu was going through the Jharikhanda forest, that all the tigers sat down in the prayagya, Mahaprabhu gave the mantra in the right ear of the tigers, then they sat in the fire and Mahaprabhu gave them the thread and they did swaha, swaha, they didn't undergo the Upanayan sanskar, which is recommended to be performed along with the, as a, to make a deep sanskar, along with the diksha mantras in the sanskar,
20:37Deepika, and Satkriya Sara Deepika of Gopal Bhatta Goswami. So, prema. It is said that we mentioned yesterday that
21:05People would get prema just seeing Mahaprabhu from far away. Where is the diksha? So, yes, it's possible to get prema. It's possible to get prema, harinam, harinam, hariname, just by chanting the holy name.
21:21We don't see that Haridasa Thakur received diksha. There's no history of Haridasa Thakur receiving diksha. However, he's Lord Brahma, so he received diksha from Krishna's flute in the Brahma Samhita. So, in principle, it's not impossible to get Krishna Prema. Why? nistha hoila upajaye, prema-taranga. By being fixed in any anga of bhakti, you can get prema, and Jiva Goswami even says this in Bhaktisandarbha, that any one of the angas of bhakti can give perfection, the holy name can give perfection, Guru Seva is independent and can give perfection, so what is the necessity of diksha?
22:27So Jiva Goswami said that the reason a person when they chant the holy name they don't get prema is because they have vikshipta-citta. That means their mind is subjected to distractions, vikshipta-citta. And also one of the things that causes their mind to be in a state of distraction is kadaryashil. Kadaryashil means they have some unvirtuous or impious habits. So if you have impious habits like eating meat or illicit connection with the opposite sex, taking intoxicants or gambling, these things make the mind become unsteady. So you have vikshipta-chitta.
23:17So because the living entities, they are affected by kadaryashil and vikshipta-chitta, when they chant the name, then they cannot become absorbed in the holy name, they commit offences to the holy name, they have inattentiveness, and so to overcome these two faults, there's a process of regulating your life, because diksha is not, oh sit down, receive a mantra, just like yesterday, there was one Indian gentleman, He came to me after the class and he said, Oh, I am so inspired by you. Please give me diksha today. He said, I was initiated in Rishikesh by a yogi there, but now I want to do bhakti. Can I be initiated again? I said, Yes, it's all right. If you have initiated in a line of yoga, but you want to come in the line of bhakti, that initiation is not relevant.
24:31If you want to follow bhakti, you need to be initiated by a Vaishnava guru in the line of bhakti. So that is fine. He said, can you give me today? I said, no, no, no. Mantra cannot be given in the evening, it has to be given in the morning. And the guru has to test the disciple before initiation. Without testing, then this causes the destruction of society. And it is a sign that the guru has material attachments to followers. He wants to collect followers. Easy come, easy go.
25:11So, we're discussing the process of diksha. So, diksha is not only being initiated on that day. Dikṣā is pañca-saṃskāra. You have to go through the pañca-saṃskāras.
25:35The tāpa and ūrdhva-puṇḍra and nāma and mantra and yajña, five saṃskāras. And to do all of these things, you have to regulate your life. You have to have a strict schedule and sādhana and practices. And so it's the process of diksha which takes away one's bad habits and creates the environment to overcome the kṣipta-citta, unsteadiness of the mind.
26:09And then when one remembers the holy name, then he can get the benefit of the holy name. But we cannot chant purely without having sambandha-jñāna, relation with Krishna. So the diksha mantra gives the saṃskāra of a particular relationship with a particular iṣṭa-deva. And so the process of diksha is actually just creating the opportunity to be able to chant purely. Understand? Because in the holy name, sorry, in the diksha mantra, what is it? It's a bīja, a word indicating prapatti, surrender, and then the holy names. So it's just the holy name. But the whole process of diksha creates the possibility and the qualification to be able to chant purely.
27:03So, another thing is that by the will of the Lord and by the desire of the great rishis who have revealed the pañcarātrika mantras, the mantras themselves have a special śakti to awaken your sambandha-jñāna as well. So Jiva Goswami said that those who want to have a special relationship with the Lord and who want to overcome their bad habits and vikṣipta-citta, they should receive mantra and pañcarātrika-dikṣā from a qualified guru. They should do that.
27:44So we can say as a general rule, if you're not a direct incarnation of Lord Brahma like Haridas Thakura, if you haven't received initiation directly from Krishna's flute in your previous life, then you will probably need to take diksha. So in Kali Yuga we all have this Kadārya-śīla and Vikṣipta-citta. So yes, we need to take diksha.
28:13You can see in the teachings to Sanatana Goswami, Mahaprabhu quotes the verse and it's also quoted by Rupa Goswami in Padyāvalī.
28:25The holy name is attractive to all persons, even liberated souls. It bestows all auspiciousness. And except for the dumb, people who are dumb, who cannot chant it, It is very easily available to everyone. The holy name does not depend on diksha. Does not depend on puraścaryā. Puraścaryā means some rituals that you have to perform when you receive diksha, then you have to do puraścaraṇa in the strict system.
28:59So this Rupa Goswami, Mahaprabhu himself, they say, na dīkṣāṃ na cāsatkriyāṃ na puraścaryāṃ manāgīkṣate, the holy name doesn't depend on diksha. So, siddhāntically, philosophically, in principle, it's a fact. But in practical life, because of the qualification of practically everyone, in Kali-yuga, we have a, there's a synergy between the Pāñcarātrika Path and the Bhāgavata-mārga. You see? So, most persons are not qualified for the Bhāgavata-mārga. So, we begin by following Vaidhi-bhakti, that is arcanā, the Pāñcarātrika-mārga.
29:45By following that, then one becomes kṛtī, refined. And then, those who are already refined, then when they hear the Bhāgavatam, then they can immediately get Krishna-prema. So, it may be that someone received pāñcarātrika-dikṣā from one guru, and he becomes refined by that. But that guru, he is not on the highest level. And then they meet another guru, who is on the highest level.
30:21highest level of Krishna-prema, and realize the service of Radha and Krishna, and when they hear the Bhāgavatam, from the Bhakta-bhāgavata, then that person immediately gets prema, or after some time, he gets prema. So, it is recommended by our ācāryas, and our ācāryas set the example: Chaitanya Mahaprabhu received diksha, Rupa Goswami, Sanatana Goswami, everyone, all of our ācāryas have received diksha, but that doesn't mean that from whom they receive diksha, is always the prominent guru from whom they receive prem, but it's considered the mercy of, if one associates later with a very high-level Bhakta-bhāgavata, who becomes prominent, but it was by the mercy of the dīkṣā-guru.
31:15So that's why we say, nama-śāstra-māna-m-api, saci-putam... this verse is Raghunath das Goswami's prayer to whom? Who is he praying to? Raghunath das Goswami, who is he praying to in this prayer?
31:39Sanatana Goswami... you see, Diksha Guru is Yadunandana Acharya, so he's saying, by the mercy of my Diksha Guru, I received Harinam, I received Diksha, and then the association of Mahaprabhu, Damodara Goswami, Sanatana Goswami, Rupa Goswami, and all the gifts, the prāpti-kṛpā, the abundant, overflowing mercy of Yadunandana Acharya. So we can say Sanatana Goswami, Rupa Goswami, they're his Bhakta-guru. But Rupa Goswami became the main one. So in this way, the ideal situation, the ideal standard that was set by Mahaprabhu, that was set by Rupa Goswami, Sanatana Goswami, and all of our ācāryas, is that perfect, the harmonic relationship between the Pāñcarātrika-mārga and the Bhāgavata-mārga.
32:55And this is why if you look at the logo of the Gaudiya Math, once we were in Latvia, in a festival in Latvia, and I gave a lecture only on the meaning of the logo of the Gaudiya Math. Have you seen the Gaudiya Math logo? No?
33:15It has the Gopāla-yantra, but it has the Pāñcarātra on one side and the Bhāgavata on the other side. and vidhi on one side and raga on the other. You see? In the ragamarg, the ragamarg is for the qualified, purified and refined persons who have very high class association. So that means they've actually entered into sudha bhakti. And so for those persons, Krishna, naam, rupa, guna and lila, when they hear it, they realize it. When they chant about the associates of Krishna, they are realizing the associates of Krishna. So they can follow the associates of Krishna.
33:59you cannot follow someone that you cannot see. This is, I'm following Lalita Saki. Yes, have you seen Lalita Saki? I'm following Rupa Menzuri. Have you seen Rupa Menzuri? Then how will you follow? What are you following? Following your imagination. So in the beginning, persons, they will take up the Vidhi Marg. They're actually on, in our line, if you have an advanced guru, then you are on Raga Marg from the beginning, but just not qualified to actually do the sadhana of Raga Nuga.
34:35because by associating with the Vaishnava in Raghamarg, then the shraddha, the faith that you get is actually lobamayi shraddha, there's some greed in it, it's not impelled by fear and rules and regulations and logic, if you have a high class guru and high class association, but the problem is because there are so many anarthas, one is not qualified to do the sadhana of Raghunuga Bhakti yet, so he has to take up Vaidhi Bhakti with great enthusiasm,
35:30So in Bhagavatamag, Smaran, does it mean remembering a description that you heard or something you read in a book about the associates? In Bhagavatamag, Smaran, and really in Vaidhimag actually, which is pure, when not in the stage of anatta nivritti, only from Shraddha to Nishtha is actually Shraddha Tattva, it's not even Bhakti Tattva.
35:57But according to the real definition of smaran, remembrance, or even the real definition of hearing, the real definition of chanting, it means realizing. It doesn't mean some words and the words are different from what they are describing. Abhinatwa, nama, namino. The name is non-different from the name. The description of the form is non-different from the form.
36:23The description of the qualities is non-different from the qualities. The description of the associates is actually non-different from the associates. If we don't realize the non-difference, then where is our advai-gyan? Where is our advai-gyan? Non-duality. Because we have duality between the word and the object, so there's no advai-gyan at all. So the practical situation is that though the Panchatric Marg is independent, it's its own path, but because it's vidhi-bhakti, it will lead to Vaikuntha, or to galok, which is maha-vaikuntha.
37:10And Bhagavatamag is also independence. It's not dependent. So no diksham, not just satkram. There's no need of diksha. Bhagavatamag is independence. But for whom? More qualified devotees. And it can also be independent, even for the less qualified devotees, but it will take a long time. You can get Krishna Prem just by chanting Hare Krishna. You can do that, but it might take a long, long time because of the level of qualification.
37:42tradition. And so the ideal standard that was set by Mahaprabhu in all of our Acharyas is this synergy, the harmony. We take up the pancachatric mark and then gradually become qualified to enter into the Bhagavat mark, but outwardly we still follow the, not every aspect of it, but outwardly we still follow the main principles.
38:30So, now, it's related to Madhav Das Brahmachari's question, that Mahaprabhu is saragrahi, he takes the essence, and so because the Bhagavat Marga does not require all the vidhi of the pancreatic Marga, and to establish the superiority and the greatness of the Bhagavat Marga, even though Chaitanya Mahaprabhu received diksha, he didn't give diksha to anyone, he didn't give diksha to anyone.
39:03So then, how can, if someone says Bhagavat Guru Parampara is nothing, everything depends on diksha, then how can anyone say that we are Gaudiya, the followers of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, you see? So he deliberately did not give initiation to anyone to show the transmission of praying is not dependent on diksha. But at the same time, we should follow the example of our acharis. Mahapu received diksha, but even receiving diksha, he could not fulfill his three desires without going to his Bhagavat Guru, who is Ramananda Rai, without hearing from Ramananda Rai.
39:49So Sanatana Goswami's diksha guru is, who is his diksha guru? We're in Navadipa, yes? We told so much about Sanatana Goswami's diksha guru. He's a resident of Vidya Nagar, yes, Vijayvachaspati.
40:16Vichaspati, he is the brother of Sarvabhauma, Pasudeva Sarvabhauma, son of Maheshwar Visharad, so he had a school there, and of course we know Mahapu went and he tried to hide in his house, but it was, you cannot hide the sun, so everyone discovered and they all went there, and the beautiful pastimes took place at the place of Vichaspati, and then Mahapu disappeared, just like Krishna disappearing from the Rasalila, where did he go?
40:49and he went to Kulia, to the house of Madhav Das in Kulia, but everyone then was against and quarreling and criticizing Vidhiva Chasputi, that he is not being generous and he is hiding Mahaprabhu in his house. So, Vidhiva Chasputi is the Diksha Guru of Sanatana Goswami and he is mentioned that in his commentary on Srimad Bhagavatam and glorified him.
41:14And the Diksha Guru of Rupa Goswami is Sanatana Goswami himself. So you see everywhere in the writings of Rupa Goswami, he's always mentioning Sanatana Goswami in Bhaktarasamrita-sindhu and in every song.
41:43Somehow on the pretext of saying that Krishna is Sanatana, he is eternal, or among the four Kumaras, one of them is Sanatana Kumar, He'll always do some slesh, some poetic ornament of a double meaning to put the name of Sanatana Goswami, whenever he's written something, to put the name of his guru Sanatana Goswami there, like that.
42:06And then the last part of your question was, is the success of someone's diksha related to or proportionate to the advancement of the guru who gives the diksha? Yes, of course. If a person has not realized the diksha mantra, then when he gives the mantra, this is not a transcendental mantra. This is not Vaikuntavayu, the air which has come from the spiritual world. It is called Nasikvayu. That means the air that went in his nose came out from his mouth. Nasikvayu, not Vaikuntavayu. So absolutely, the success, the progress that the disciple will make and the power to give the Prakash, illuminate the heart of the mantra is directly proportional to the advancement of the Gurus giving the mantra.
43:00Yes, so it's essential to receive mantra from a qualified person who has realization.
43:07Gauru Premanandi!
