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Q&A: Stages in Meditation for Yogis and Devotees - 15-08-2025 - Sri Prem Prayojan

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0:01You know that the idea of meditation is very attractive and popular, but actually entering into meditation is something else. The idea of meditation is popular. Why? Because people think that I will relax, I will become free from anxiety and then I will be able to enjoy more, but actually real meditation is not so easy.

1:06For the yogis, those who are on the path of the Ashtanga Yoga, they understand they'll have to go through the state of mudha, become free from ignorance, through the state of kshipta, distracted mind, become free from the influence of rajaguna, and then vikshipta, even when they are beginning to concentrate, but there's some slight distraction, mixed sattva and rajas, they'll have to become free from that, and enter into the state of ekagrata, ekagrata chitta, one-pointed concentration. Then when they come into the state of ekagrata, one-pointed concentration, the yogis will have to go through the stages of the sampragyata samadhi, that is meditation where there is a difference between the subject and the object, where there is a lamban, an object of meditation.

2:17So they'll have to go through the stages of Savitarka samadhi, then Nirvitarka samadhi, and then more fine, Savichar samadhi, and Nirvichar samadhi, and then Sananda samadhi, and Sasmith samadhi, and then they will come to Nirodha, Asampragyata samadhi, where there is no distinction between the subject and the object. Tripulti bin asha. So the yogis understand when they are meditating, every moment they're waiting patiently to gradually go through these stages to higher and higher levels of consciousness. So we don't follow the path of Ashtanga Yoga because this is Aroha Panta. It is the path of self-elevationism.

3:19We follow the path of bhakti devotion and this devotion is Avaroha Panta, the descending process. We surrender to Sri Krishna, we surrender to the holy name: Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama, Hare Hare And we depend on the creeper of Sri Krishna to uplift us and bring us to the shelter of his lotus feet You can see it here in Chaitanya Academy, there is an altar and Radha and Krishna are there And you can see here right behind me, there is Hare Krishna Maha Mantra. It's written, if you don't know Sanskrit, then I can tell you that it says Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare Krishna. It's written on the wall here.

4:13So in fact, there's no difference between this altar and this altar. They are same. When the senses are purified, when the mind is purified, then if you have darshan of this altar or you have darshan of this altar, it's the same. Radha and Krishna. Because abhinatham nam namino, in western theology this is called onomatodoxy, that is the doctrine, that the vibration of the name of God and God himself, they are abhinna, non-different, there is no difference at all.

4:54So for the devotee, he takes shelter of Sri Krishna in the form of the holy name, and the devotee also goes through stages. First, smaran, remembrance, and then dharana, concentration, then dhyana, meditation, then druva anusmiti, fixed continuous meditation on the pastimes of Sri Krishna, and finally samadhi, when you in your spiritual form enter into the pastimes of Sri Krishna.

5:31So, the yogi is going through stages, and the devotee is also going through stages, but the yogi is trying by his own effort, and the devotee is surrendering to Krishna, and depending on Krishna's mercy to raise him. In nam bhajan, we are not karta, we are not the doer. Who is karta? Harinam, the holy name is the doer. So, don't try to strain too much.

6:02Like a woman tried to give birth to a baby, push, push, it is not like this, that you enter into the depths of meditation by force of your own effort, let go, surrender to Sri Krishna, and weeping for his mercy, gradually, gradually, Sri Krishna will elevate us, this is the Avarohapanta, the descending process, that means the descent of Kripa, the descent of Sri Krishna's mercy, So in the Kurma Purana, it is said in regard to the Yoga Sadhana, that if you can fix your mind without wandering, flickering here and there for 12 seconds, you enter a state called Dharana, concentration, and you will feel as if you have emigrated to another universe.

7:00Don't try to travel in three dimensions in this world, that is just being restless, like a grasshopper, jumping here and there, cannot sit still, so don't be with a very agitated mind and agitated senses, jumping like a grasshopper, and with the attention span of a goldfish, just flitting from one thing to another, try to concentrate on the holy name.

7:39If the mind can become fixed for 12 seconds, you will feel as if you have become elevated to another level of existence. And that state is called dharana concentration. Then in the Kurma Purana it said if you can continue for 12 dharanas, that is how many seconds? Yes, 144 seconds. Then you'll go to the next level that is called dhyana meditation.

8:07And in the state of dhyana, the yogis, the yoga sadhana is a roha panta. If they can't fix their mind for 144 seconds, then they will have the darshan of paramatma, paramatma in the heart. They will see the four-armed form of Vishnu standing on the lotus of the heart in the state of the nirvitarka samadhi.

8:40So they will also have to practice some bhakti along with their yogasadhan, otherwise yogasadhan alone will not produce any result at all. But if they'll do the yoga mishra bhakti, then they can achieve this. So, or even bhakti mishra yoga, they can achieve this. So 144 seconds stand between you and the darshan of the paramatma. Not very long. But this, I'm just giving some approximations which are given according to the yoga sadhana because it's somewhat mechanical.

9:28We are devotees of Krishna, so we don't adhere to understanding in our path of the precise allocation of seconds for each stage, that is for the Aroha Panta, but I'm just giving that as some example that is given in the Koma Parana, to show how we can be very close to realizing God.

9:54it is said the meaning is for one who gives up their ego they give up pride they give up vanity you know what vanity is the word vanity comes from vain what is in vain what is useless that has no value etymologically. It comes from the sense of emptiness. In other words, all the activities which are connected to the body and mind, which are performed to get some temporary results, they're all in vain. Because as kal, time will move, it will take away everything. So this is vanity. Vanity is not only putting on some makeup and trying to make yourself look beautiful.

11:00Vanity is doing things that in the end will be in vain, futile. And that is every material activity. So when a person gives up ego, which is manifest by vanity, the activities of vanity, then that person, Krishna is very close to that person. They can attain Krishna quickly. However, for a person who maintains his ego then there are many mountain ranges like the Himalayas and the Alps and so many mountain ranges in between you and God God is very far away so even though even for the yogis or doing the yog sadhana the vision of Paramatma in the heart is only 144 seconds away but how long will it take

12:00take a person to traverse those 144 seconds, like just over two minutes. When will that two minutes come in a person's life? Today, tomorrow? No. Why? Pap, sins. It's due to pap, our sins, due to kusanskar, that is the negative impressions of material existence which are there in our consciousness by which we don't have the habit to sit in one place and fully take shelter of the holy name, but rather by our pap, by our sins, by our kusanskar, bad impressions, the senses and the mind are always, get up, do something, go here, go there, talk about this, talk about that, I, I, I, ni, ni, ni, mine, mine, mine, like this.

13:02So, this is the sign. The sign that one has become free from pap, sinful reactions. The sign that one has become free from the kusanskar, material impressions, is that you can sit in one place and chant the holy name. One round, eight rounds, 16 rounds, 32 rounds, 48 rounds, 64 rounds. This is the sign.

13:35
nirmukta, bhajan, timam, dridha, brataha, Sri Krishna said in Bhagavad Gita, those persons who are, yesham, tuantakatham, papam, they are free from sins, in this life, and previous life, jananam punyakarmanam, and they have done the punyakarma, here punyakarma, does not mean pious activities, planting, trees, digging, wells, opening hospitals, here punyakarma means, sadhusanga, te dvandva moha nirmukta,
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14:14then that person becomes mukta, it becomes liberated from dvandva, the dualities of this world, that arise from the difference between the subtle body and the gross body because the soul is covered by the gross and subtle body. Then he has a concept of subject and object which is false. The subject is false because the subject is your ego; ultimately the subject is ātmā, but he's covered by ego, so there's a duality between subject and object, and he feels, "Oh, I am in this world, I am doing so many things, I am dodging so many dangerous situations, I'm navigating through so many paths on so many journeys." But both the subject and object, they're both illusory. So when the person is free from pāpa, they are free from their control of their mundane impressions, when they have had sādhu-saṅga and the sādhu-saṅga has given them a deep impression

15:24how to follow the path of bhakti. Unless you associate with the sādhu, unless you hear from a sādhu, unless you watch the life of a sādhu, we cannot accumulate the saṁskāra, the viśeṣa-saṁskāra, the intense impressions that constitute bhakti-latā-bīja, the seed of devotion, the śāstrīya-śraddhā, the faith in the scriptures. So when a person has these qualifications, then he becomes free from the material concept of subject and object, the dvandva-moha-nirmuktā, and then what?

16:03bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ, then that person can engage in bhajana, the service of Kṛṣṇa, the service of the holy name, dṛḍha-vrata, with an extremely firm and unbreakable vow, cannot be stopped or interrupted by any circumstances. So consider all of these things very carefully and very deeply and try to apply them in your life.

16:30Śrī Harināma Prabhupāda, Jaya, Hare Kṛṣṇa.